Massive censorship at Predictor !!!
Message boards : Cafe Docking : Massive censorship at Predictor !!!
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Predictor@home is censoring massively at their boards and is restricting the freedom of opinion of their registered users in an inappropriate manner.
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suguruhirahara
Forum moderator Volunteer tester 
Joined: Sep 13 06 Posts: 282 ID: 15 Credit: 56,614 RAC: 0 |
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I regard censorship as what should be punished, but I don't think every modifying of threads must be blamed. IMO there are too few features for a moderator at boinc standard forum like delete or move. It's possible to block users from posting, but I heard once that the period is limited within a few weaks. I don't think a moderator can block such a long period at "boinc standard forum". I'm not sure whether at phpBB it is so too or not.
I think it is not acceptable that the freedom of opinion is restricted in that way and I want to ask the BOINC community members to form an opinion about this. Try for yourself and start asking about this all at the P@H message boards! I totally agree. Freedom of thinking opinions should fully be ensured, but nevertheless it doesn't mean that to show opinions which are enough to make the forum disorder or irrelevant to a context of threads/forums/projects need to be also secured. Discussions that have even a little connexions with the project is naturally to be secured, but how about is that discussion at predictor@home? Well...actually there is the relationship, but at least there isn't with this project, docking@home. Thanks for noticing it, anyway :D Also considered "motives" of forum moderators, the reason why project moderator modify the threads isn't often besed on their own sake, unlike that of politics. Politicians are said that they censor the freedom of speach to hide what is inconvenient for themselves, but is it same for boinc forum moderator too? I don't really think so... If docking@home 'hid' a information with a concrete evidence which says, for example, they 'were' selling results to someone, that 'were' nothing but censorship. thanks, suguruhirahara ____________ 
I'm a volunteer participant; my views are not necessarily those of Docking@Home or its participating institutions. |
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David Ball
Forum moderator Volunteer tester 
Joined: Sep 18 06 Posts: 274 ID: 115 Credit: 1,634,401 RAC: 0 |
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I was going to wait to say anything but since we forgot to tell Suguru (sorry about that Suguru) and he responded to the OP, I will go ahead and say that I emailed Andre about this yesterday and we're looking into it. So far, I haven't found anything that contradicts the original post in this thread, and I have found a lot that seems to support it.
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This thread remains open. Please keep it kid friendly. I agree, although it can be frustrating that a project shuts doors to prevent discussing... let's not create a overheated discussion here. ;-) ____________ 
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suguruhirahara
Forum moderator Volunteer tester
Joined: Sep 13 06 Posts: 282 ID: 15 Credit: 56,614 RAC: 0 |
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I was going to wait to say anything but since we forgot to tell Suguru (sorry about that Suguru) and he responded to the OP, I will go ahead and say that I emailed Andre about this yesterday and we're looking into it. So far, I haven't found anything that contradicts the original post in this thread, and I have found a lot that seems to support it. Oh, I couldn't notice that you've dared not to talk about it! :( I know it's terrible when flames appear over a forum, actially, experienced them at Rosetta@home some months ago. ____________
I'm a volunteer participant; my views are not necessarily those of Docking@Home or its participating institutions. |
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David Ball
Forum moderator Volunteer tester
Joined: Sep 18 06 Posts: 274 ID: 115 Credit: 1,634,401 RAC: 0 |
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Oh, I couldn't notice that you've dared not to talk about it! :( I left it alone here and started researching things by email and by reading other forums. I didn't want to speak for the project on this since I'm just a volunteer. Actually, in all my time as a moderator for D@H, I've still never deleted a post or closed a thread. I noticed that Cori was banned from Predictor. That is the same Cori who worked on the Docking@Home logo / banner isn't it? When I checked the Predictor forums this morning, it looks like she's in her 5th incarnation and there's a thread that has reached 40+ posts. BTW, you're a member of BOINC Synergy. Could you look at page 2 of the thread titled "Trojan boinc installation by rogue member" and mention to Saenger that he has David Braun @Rosetta rather than @Predictor. OT: Re-reading the forums at other projects reminded me of some of the credit arguments and made me very happy that Docking@Home has already addressed that. -- David Ball ____________ The views expressed are my own. Facts are subject to memory error :-) Have you read a good science fiction novel lately? |
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... I noticed that Cori was banned from Predictor. That is the same Cori who worked on the Docking@Home logo / banner isn't it? When I checked the Predictor forums this morning, it looks like she's in her 5th incarnation and there's a thread that has reached 40+ posts... Hello David! Yes, it's me! I was in fact banned 5 times... ;-) I was really embarrassed about how things went at P@H yesterday. Initially I wasn't pleased with how the P@H admin dealt with the "trojan BOINC installations" crunching for the account of a certain user. But before the discussion started my post and I think the posts of at least two other users were deleted. After that the question arose why we weren't "allowed" to express our opinions. Things were going rough after that, because posts/threads were deleted faster than you can hit "reply". ;-) And after accounts have been blocked from posting (until 2038 *LOL*), account creation was closed to prevent new postings. The "end" was a number of blocked ip ranges, so I wasn't able to reach the whole site including my account(s) for several hours. :-( The thing which made me most worried was the fact that my and most of the other users postings were/are not offending. And I don't like to be restriced that massively in expressing my point of view. Ok, we were not happy and we made that clear, but no one was insulted. After a while some sarcasm was the only way to cope with the situation, but still I don't think I and most others posted insulting content. Too bad, there are always some who are getting rude when angry. At least I can say I tried to calm down the latest user posting. And the only thing I really wish is an appropriate way of dealing with the "W*** issue" and to get unblocked. Maybe a little apology from the P@H admin to the community would do good as well. So I am very glad to hear there's something done "behind the scenes". That was the intention of spreading this thread around the BOINC boards. Sorry for this long posting, guys! ;-) But I felt I had to make this mess that happened a little more understandable. And thanks a lot for keeping this thread open. :-) EDIT: darn typos. *grin* ____________ Bribe me with Lasagna!! :-) |
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David Ball
Forum moderator Volunteer tester
Joined: Sep 18 06 Posts: 274 ID: 115 Credit: 1,634,401 RAC: 0 |
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Hi Cori,
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suguruhirahara
Forum moderator Volunteer tester
Joined: Sep 13 06 Posts: 282 ID: 15 Credit: 56,614 RAC: 0 |
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Hello again,
Freedom of Speech issue: I think that schools have really failed here. Freedom of speech does not mean that you can say anything anywhere you want. It means that I can criticize the government, which I do often, and there is nothing that they can do about it. It does not mean that you can walk into my house to express your opinion, you can't use my phone, computer, wireless, or the P@H server without permission. That permission can be revoked at any time. If you invite me to your home and discover that I like to talk about the KKK, which most people might find offensive, you can ask me to leave. If I refuse to leave you can call the police and have me arrested. There is no freedom of speech issue here. When you are on someone's property and you are ask to leave you have to leave. That's why the system of law includes the the topic of "abuse of right". When you read the textbook of law, you'll find it very fundamental idea of Civil Code. Those who think it is legally unacceptable had better allege the case to the court. It's the most welcomed way for the society. But we may question that what the moderator is doing is also the abuse of right or not. Yeah... for me it's interesting case. Several users decided that they were going to ignore my request and reopened the thread. It's like a "hand-made" DoS attack, anyway :( Again, it's not your server. It's mine. Just as a property manager or security guard can ask you to leave a shopping mall I can ask you to leave our server. The difference between the local governance and the governance at P@H is here; the owner of your property (whether it belongs to real right or not) is yourself, whereas the onwer of their property is themselves. BTW why don't people install any security software against such a trojan? It is this that the very root of this issue. ____________
I'm a volunteer participant; my views are not necessarily those of Docking@Home or its participating institutions. |
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new Members cant get help at Predictor anymore - they cant post - you need an minimum of credit - but it says not how much
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This is one project crossed off my to do list. I agree its their property (the server) and they can do much what they please. I also think teams should blacklist this project. My team leader is on a holiday at the moment or i would have messaged him already (its not something a temp leader should decide) about B@A taking a stand.
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suguruhirahara
Forum moderator Volunteer tester
Joined: Sep 13 06 Posts: 282 ID: 15 Credit: 56,614 RAC: 0 |
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This is one project crossed off my to do list. I agree its their property (the server) and they can do much what they please. I also think teams should blacklist this project. My team leader is on a holiday at the moment or i would have messaged him already (its not something a temp leader should decide) about B@A taking a stand. Its sad really i created an account and then our AA6 got a very early start so it went on the back burner. Oh well Predictor doesn't get a share of my 6 cores means Docking gets a larger share once AA6 is over so its not all bad news is it. Actually it's voluntary to crunch a project, because it's the donation; those who want to do it should do it. Since each member of a team had the right to crunch projects, I'd let it be. Still, let's think this again; what do we participate any project for? There can be many answers as well as the number of the participants, but the one of the most clear and general is to help the science, from computing to public education (like the newsletters written by guys at UTEP), be progressed. Is the event at P@H much more serious than the point? And I don't think it's good idea to blame them on this board for what they've done. We, especially I, can educate ourselves thanks to the happening, though :) ____________
I'm a volunteer participant; my views are not necessarily those of Docking@Home or its participating institutions. |
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This is one project crossed off my to do list. I agree its their property (the server) and they can do much what they please. I also think teams should blacklist this project. My team leader is on a holiday at the moment or i would have messaged him already (its not something a temp leader should decide) about B@A taking a stand. Its sad really i created an account and then our AA6 got a very early start so it went on the back burner. Oh well Predictor doesn't get a share of my 6 cores means Docking gets a larger share once AA6 is over so its not all bad news is it. Even on Seti@home in the (old) flame wars, nobody was banned until 2038 ! Sure, they do what they want in "their" forums and this is not the first time that has happened. But if participants can learn, project administrator needs too. People are not dogs or zombies. |
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This is one project crossed off my to do list. I agree its their property (the server) and they can do much what they please. I also think teams should blacklist this project. My team leader is on a holiday at the moment or i would have messaged him already (its not something a temp leader should decide) about B@A taking a stand. Its sad really i created an account and then our AA6 got a very early start so it went on the back burner. Oh well Predictor doesn't get a share of my 6 cores means Docking gets a larger share once AA6 is over so its not all bad news is it. I think given the attitude that many have received that people would rather donate their time to projects that do not act in the way that P@H has. I was looking forward to crunching there again but instead I will turn my resources (as small as they are) to other projects. BTW: I think that the D@H team has done an outstanding job of responding to our questions and keeping us upto date as to what is happening in matters of D@H. Kudos to D@H!! ____________ 
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Hi Cori, Hi David! THX for the Lasagna! Garfield is purring loudly! :-)))) And like Acmefrog said already: biiiiiig thanks for your effort to this whole subject! Maybe things aren't low key & behind the scenes anymore, but with people like you here and the other project crew people they can only get better. And I'm happy if the outcome is something good to prevent such things in future! Lots of sunshine from Germany! (Ok, it's already dark here but we had beautiful spring weather today! ;-)) Cori |
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David Ball
Forum moderator Volunteer tester
Joined: Sep 18 06 Posts: 274 ID: 115 Credit: 1,634,401 RAC: 0 |
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Hi,
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2800 | Rating: 1
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... Please remember that it isn't our project, Docking@Home (D@H), that everyone is upset about. Yes, D@H are the "good guys"! ;-)) And since I have some free cpu cycles now I decided to upgrade the BOINC client to 5.8.15 on one of my boxes to crunch more Docking-WUs. Man, I really have to improve my RAC here... *grin* ____________ Bribe me with Lasagna!! :-) |
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David Ball
Forum moderator Volunteer tester
Joined: Sep 18 06 Posts: 274 ID: 115 Credit: 1,634,401 RAC: 0 |
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snip Thanks for the kind words about D@H!!! I'm glad to see you'll be crunching more Docking WUs. Maybe we'll see you more often in the forums. A lot of people never seemed to post again after the Christmas break. It's been very quiet in the forums here lately. Happy Crunching, -- David ____________ The views expressed are my own. Facts are subject to memory error :-) Have you read a good science fiction novel lately? |
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It's really a shame but I must admit I simply "forgot" a bit about Docking... guess I was too busy hopping around the projects and boards.
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Alright, I'll write something here to blow some life back in the forums ;-)
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Have a gooood laugh at this one, you gotta love it:
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suguruhirahara
Forum moderator Volunteer tester
Joined: Sep 13 06 Posts: 282 ID: 15 Credit: 56,614 RAC: 0 |
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Have a gooood laugh at this one, you gotta love it: Whenever it is the post can be seen as apperance of the genuine thought, btw :p ____________
I'm a volunteer participant; my views are not necessarily those of Docking@Home or its participating institutions. |
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Whenever it is the post can be seen as apperance of the genuine thought, btw :p That's why I really love it! ;-))) ____________ Bribe me with Lasagna!! :-) |
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I'm sad that I was Banned there too, I rebooted that old via of mine thousands of times when it would hang their tasks, I got 19 k with that processor there @ about 29 cobblestones a day thats a couple of years (running), learned alot about bioscience ,changed 'cince I was in school ;-)
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3107 | Rating: 0
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Don't hope anything, nothing will change on Predictor board.
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And IP¨banned again. |
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And IP¨banned again. and "legend in his own mind" Ageless is about the only one posting, and is in fact taunting people in the Cafe about not being able to post. |
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suguruhirahara
Forum moderator Volunteer tester
Joined: Sep 13 06 Posts: 282 ID: 15 Credit: 56,614 RAC: 0 |
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people, please keep in mind that this forum is at docking@home, not predictor@home... I don't tend to discourage you from posting, anyway.
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people, please keep in mind that this forum is at docking@home, not predictor@home... I don't tend to discourage you from posting, anyway. What does this mean? |
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In my experience, any project that has a major connection with Scripps (Sorry guys) starts out with a bang, but winds up having the worst public relations.
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suguruhirahara
Forum moderator Volunteer tester
Joined: Sep 13 06 Posts: 282 ID: 15 Credit: 56,614 RAC: 0 |
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people, please keep in mind that this forum is at docking@home, not predictor@home... I don't tend to discourage you from posting, anyway. I mean, here is the place for docking, so blaming them isnt so good idea, you see. ____________
I'm a volunteer participant; my views are not necessarily those of Docking@Home or its participating institutions. |
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people, please keep in mind that this forum is at docking@home, not predictor@home... I don't tend to discourage you from posting, anyway. Excuse me, but isn't this entire thread about censorship at Predictor? And now you're telling me we can't discuss that? No one can post about it at Predictor, so the message needs to go out to the BOINC community on other forums. |
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3174 | Rating: -9.9920072216264E-15
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David Ball
Forum moderator Volunteer tester
Joined: Sep 18 06 Posts: 274 ID: 115 Credit: 1,634,401 RAC: 0 |
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people, please keep in mind that this forum is at docking@home, not predictor@home... I don't tend to discourage you from posting, anyway. I don't think that's what Suguru meant. IIRC, I've seen him post in his team forum about how upset he is with Predictor. I don't believe that English is his native language and his English does not seem to be up to it's usual high standards when discussing Predictor. I'm just a volunteer but I believe the official Docking@Home policy is that Predictor is their project and Docking can't tell them how to run it. You could read Dockings position in more than one way. Personally, from what I've read in other mailing lists and forums, I get the impression that Predictor doesn't like to be told how to run their project by other project admins. I'm not really up on what's happening currently at Predictor since I detached my machines from there when this mess started. I haven't deleted any posts about Predictor and I don't intend to, unless it descends into a lot of profanity and name calling. I don't think Suguru intends to delete any posts either. Suguru is a nice person and probably shares your opinion of Predictor so Please go easy on him. Docking is a very open project and has good communication with it's volunteers. Andre is very good at telling people what's going on, and at listening to people's complaints or suggestions. I do not think you will ever have to worry about Docking ignoring the people who volunteer time on their computers for this project. Regards, -- David Ball Volunteer Forum Moderator ____________ The views expressed are my own. Facts are subject to memory error :-) Have you read a good science fiction novel lately? |
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Excuse me, but isn't this entire thread about censorship at Predictor? This thread is indeed about Predictor... and "legend in his own mind" Ageless is about the only one posting, and is in fact taunting people in the Cafe about not being able to post. ... but in my honest opinion this is not. Let's not start "flaming" people that are not able to reply here. ;-) ____________
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IMHO the worst thing is that this thread is still needed. ;-(
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ID:
3183 | Rating: 0.99999999999999
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I personally think he is keeping the profiles as a sort of trophy. Who am I to say why he does what he does. Although he seems too cowardly to approach us directly.
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Well it seems that everyone with the Banned for Life team has been wiped off completely. Including me. While I was in the team I was never actually banned (couldn't post because my RAC was 0). All credit and posts of mine are gone. At least I have Docking to crunch :)
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3305 | Rating: 0
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Hi matie!
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My account is gone too and my 106113 credits too of course.
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Hi - my account is gone too. The only thing I did - I was a member of the "Banned" team and wrote some words in my profile. Since a long time I have nothing posted there in the P@H forum. My question, why deleted I send via email to my dearest friend Mr. B. and I wait now for an answer.
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@Nightbird: Yes you had the most credits of us all at the last BANNED team. :-(
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I joined with ya Cori but it seems I need to have credit just to show-up as a member of the team. Not sure if I want to do that. (At least I could post in the 'Last to Post Here with Enough Credit Wins' posting.)
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Thank you Acmefrog! I saw you joining because as the team founder I can see all members. ;-)
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Our new team from today was just deleted again. Thank god this time I had no more credits to get wiped off. ;-(
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Our new team from today was just deleted again. Thank god this time I had no more credits to get wiped off. ;-( + 2 others teams "Banned/Banned For Life" ;) |
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Our new team from today was just deleted again. Thank god this time I had no more credits to get wiped off. ;-( Not that I'm trying to be insensitive to the issue, but if you guys are suprised that you got banned for flaunting the fact that you found a way to circumvent your previous bannings (as innapropriate as said bannings may have seemed to some).... Well.. er.. I'm trying to think of something non-judgemental to say about a person (Nay! Forum Moderator!) who might find themself in that position... |
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*LOL* Aaron... I was NOT surprised these
new
teams were deleted.
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Our new team from today was just deleted again. Thank god this time I had no more credits to get wiped off. ;-( I had just joined banned for life because I felt the same as they did. I had not ever been banned as I had not said anything that was worth being bannable. But now just because I felt the same as my now wiped teammates I was completely wiped as well. No notice. No warning or anything from the Brauninator. Sure some of the members likely went overboard and said things that would have gotten them banned at other sites, but I had not. (Or maybe so I thought?!?!?) My joining was a form of silent protest at the site to show my displeasure with how many of us were treated. ____________
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From the Predictor home page: 05/14/07 Barf. Jordless and DLB deserve each other. |
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Thank you Acmefrog! I saw you joining because as the team founder I can see all members. ;-) I hadn't posted yet because I need credit. I have recreated myself there again and am crunching one WU so that I can. I also see that we have been labeled malicious hackers by the Brauninator. ____________
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*LOL* Aaron... I was NOT surprised these new teams were deleted. I think that for a project administrator, deleting an account is the *last* option. It is quite possibly the worst thing you can do, socially. Though.. I still have predictor credits, so I rescind that statement. Delete away! FIND THE HOOLIGANS AND DELETE THEM ALL! |
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If you look at the top teams or top participants, it's clear that in terms of participation that Predictor is now a "private" project.
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suguruhirahara
Forum moderator Volunteer tester
Joined: Sep 13 06 Posts: 282 ID: 15 Credit: 56,614 RAC: 0 |
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guys, please don't be wild here, whatever you've been done there...
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ID:
3323 | Rating: -1
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guys, please don't be wild here, whatever you've been done there... There's nobody being "wild" here. This censorship/libel thing needs to be discussed in every project forum, to get the word out about those people. Obviously, it can't be discussed on *their* forum... |
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ID:
3324 | Rating: 0.99999999999999
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guys, please don't be wild here, whatever you've been done there... And thankfully we could borrow this forum (thread) for discussion. ;-) Proteins can vary a lot I'd say. *grin* To that fairy tale of us former members of BFL team being "malicious hackers" I can only say that I didn't post on P@H forums since the first "heat wave" about W*te and censorship had ended. (That was at the end of March or some days later.) Most of the times there was a RAC >1 needed so I couldn't post there anyway. I even told DLB in an email that I did not wish to come back to his precious forums! But I think I deserve my account and credit data to be restored and this should be the same for the previous BFL team members. ____________ Bribe me with Lasagna!! :-) |
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ID:
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suguruhirahara
Forum moderator Volunteer tester
Joined: Sep 13 06 Posts: 282 ID: 15 Credit: 56,614 RAC: 0 |
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guys, please don't be wild here, whatever you've been done there... So what is the relationship between the censorship and this post of you? If you look at the top teams or top participants, it's clear that in terms of participation that Predictor is now a "private" project. It's like going another way. And thankfully we could borrow this forum (thread) for discussion. ;-) Of course we could :D ____________
I'm a volunteer participant; my views are not necessarily those of Docking@Home or its participating institutions. |
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ID:
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If you look at the top teams or top participants, it's clear that in terms of participation that Predictor is now a "private" project. Nope not "private"... if I wanted I could still crunch there. I have chosen not to do so by myself... ;-) But I think I deserve my account and credit data to be restored and this should be the same for the previous BFL team members. You have my vote on this one Cori... you and your team spended a lot of cpu-cycles there. How/if or when this would happen is unlucky for you (and your team) in the hands of the crew there at this moment. Maybe a period of one-sided "rest" could solve things. But... let's not forget... a "new" project called docking has come to the resque. Cpu cycles are save here. ;-) ____________
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ID:
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Actually.. could I get my posts in this thread deleted please? I don't want to lose my credits at predictor should Mr. B come in here and see my posts... Yes, I'm scrrd! |
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It's not Braunie who will come visiting - he's too above actually seeing what goes on in other projects. Too self-centered. It's that snoopy suck-up Jordless who will cause trouble, carrying his tales back to his master. |
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ID:
3336 | Rating: -3
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David Ball
Forum moderator Volunteer tester
Joined: Sep 18 06 Posts: 274 ID: 115 Credit: 1,634,401 RAC: 0 |
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I "think" you were joking but if someone seriously wants their posts deleted from this thread, just let me know and quote this message in your request so I know you're serious.
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ID:
3339 | Rating: 0
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Well to be honest... I hope Aaron was joking.
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ID:
3341 | Rating: 0
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David Ball
Forum moderator Volunteer tester
Joined: Sep 18 06 Posts: 274 ID: 115 Credit: 1,634,401 RAC: 0 |
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What's the situation over at Predictor these days? I notice there are a lot of posts by Braun (dlb) these days and news items on the front page almost every day so it looks like the project is now actually keeping users well informed on the technical aspects of the project.
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ID:
3387 | Rating: 0
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What's the situation over at Predictor these days? Hi David! :-) I am not really sure about the current progress there. It has gotten quiet about the censorship issue there. Of course the main reason for that is the fact that people concerned about it were deleted or just have left the project without looking back. Today it seems that all sorts of "technical" questions can be asked (with appropriate RAC of course ;-)) and get answered. I am still pretty sure that any question concerning the old "censorship issue" would be treated as bad as before. I am not even convinced that any question regarding the way of how the project/forum is led in general would be welcomed. But I can't prove because I no longer exist there. *grin* So crunch on and let us know! ;-) PS. And I also still don't like the idea of "rewarding" the "good" users there with assigned machines (and of course credits en masse ) from the projects' computer lab at the same time when me and others lost all their credits due to deletion. :-( ____________ Bribe me with Lasagna!! :-) |
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ID:
3393 | Rating: 0
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There's a thread at BOINCstats about the recent behaviour of P@H admin.
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ID:
3394 | Rating: 0
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David Ball
Forum moderator Volunteer tester
Joined: Sep 18 06 Posts: 274 ID: 115 Credit: 1,634,401 RAC: 0 |
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I could have sworn that a few weeks back, I saw some posts by Mo.v in the P@H forums sort of defending P@H actions and saying let's move on from here. I could easily be mistaken, though.
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ID:
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I don't think that Mo.v defended P@H actions but she was always keeping up a way of being polite when asking questions and trying to explain the original Wate issue.
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ID:
3396 | Rating: 0
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I don't think that Mo.v defended P@H actions but she was always keeping up a way of being polite when asking questions and trying to explain the original Wate issue. The best thing is indeed to stay with better projects but without forgotting what's happened at Predictor. ____________ Do you want to get banned for 31 years and your account & credits deleted at a Boinc project ? Predictor@home is your best choice. |
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ID:
3398 | Rating: 0
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A door was opened and will never be closed.
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The Brauninator is still at it. Over at the Free-DC forums a person named Angus was just wiped for correcting dlb.
There was a thread over there complaining about WU stopping with a "waiting for memory" error message. ____________
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ID:
3400 | Rating: 0
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We, the BOINCHeidelberg team (with the help of other teams like BOINC Synergy and Alliance Francophone and others), decided to write an open letter to the P@H administration.
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ID:
3406 | Rating: -1
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Message boards : Cafe Docking : Massive censorship at Predictor !!!
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