What is the plan for PPC Macs?
Message boards : Macintosh : What is the plan for PPC Macs?
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Will there ever be applications for PPC Macs? If so, is there a timeline?
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Will there ever be applications for PPC Macs? If so, is there a timeline? Andre has written, that they would port it to the PPC Macs, but they have some problems with the compiler. Thread http://docking.utep.edu/forum_thread.php?id=46&nowrap=true#539 : Currently have many problems with g95 on Mac-PPC which is the reason the PPC version of the app has not been released yet. |
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Andre Kerstens
Forum moderator Project tester Volunteer tester 
Joined: Sep 11 06 Posts: 749 ID: 1 Credit: 15,199 RAC: 0 |
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Correct. As soon as we get the app to compile with G95 (which is the only compiler we have on our ppc macs) we'll release it to the alpha testers. We'll be asking for more PPC testers at that time too.
Will there ever be applications for PPC Macs? If so, is there a timeline? ____________ D@H the greatest project in the world... a while from now! |
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Correct. As soon as we get the app to compile with G95 (which is the only compiler we have on our ppc macs) we'll release it to the alpha testers. We'll be asking for more PPC testers at that time too. Thanks! ____________ Dublin, CA Team SETI.USA |
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Correct. As soon as we get the app to compile with G95 (which is the only compiler we have on our ppc macs) we'll release it to the alpha testers. We'll be asking for more PPC testers at that time too. Why g95 and not gfortran? ____________ |
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Andre Kerstens
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Joined: Sep 11 06 Posts: 749 ID: 1 Credit: 15,199 RAC: 0 |
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Tried both. The app compiles with both actually, but the problem is that it will only run for a couple of minutes and then quit with a signal 14 (alarm clock). We have no clue yet where that is coming from, but are waiting for the new version of charmm to be released to find out if that is a problem that has been solved. As soon as we solve that (major) problem we release a PPC version too.
Correct. As soon as we get the app to compile with G95 (which is the only compiler we have on our ppc macs) we'll release it to the alpha testers. We'll be asking for more PPC testers at that time too. ____________ D@H the greatest project in the world... a while from now! |
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Tried both. The app compiles with both actually, but the problem is that it will only run for a couple of minutes and then quit with a signal 14 (alarm clock). We have no clue yet where that is coming from, but are waiting for the new version of charmm to be released to find out if that is a problem that has been solved. As soon as we solve that (major) problem we release a PPC version too. I had simliar problems with the SIMAP HMMER application on FreeBSD. It helped for me, not to link the libstc++.a and use the libstdc++.so. Also it could be a linkage problem. It would be woth to try to link the binary complete dynamicly with shared libraries. |
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Andre Kerstens
Forum moderator Project tester Volunteer tester
Joined: Sep 11 06 Posts: 749 ID: 1 Credit: 15,199 RAC: 0 |
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I'm linking the binary dynamically on the Mac; Apple doesn't want you to link statically, because they don't support it, so I rather don't. I'm not sure whether I'm using libstdc++ because we have a fortran app :-)
Tried both. The app compiles with both actually, but the problem is that it will only run for a couple of minutes and then quit with a signal 14 (alarm clock). We have no clue yet where that is coming from, but are waiting for the new version of charmm to be released to find out if that is a problem that has been solved. As soon as we solve that (major) problem we release a PPC version too. ____________ D@H the greatest project in the world... a while from now! |
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suguruhirahara
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Is the app for PowerPC already available, or just for x86 yet?
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1474 | Rating: 0
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Andre Kerstens
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Finally got it to compile with the old version of Charmm with gfortran. The disadvantage is (and the climateprediction guys that I spoke with at SC'06 have the same problem) is that it dynamically links against the gfortran libraries. This means people have to install those libraries on their machines before they will be able to cruch with our app, which is not a great solution in my eyes. Another one would be to have the libraries distributed by BOINC together with the app, but in that case I need some way of telling the app where they are... working on that one and solutions for this problem are welcome if anybody has one.
Is the app for PowerPC already available, or just for x86 yet? ____________ D@H the greatest project in the world... a while from now! |
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Finally got it to compile with the old version of Charmm with gfortran. The disadvantage is (and the climateprediction guys that I spoke with at SC'06 have the same problem) is that it dynamically links against the gfortran libraries. This means people have to install those libraries on their machines before they will be able to cruch with our app, which is not a great solution in my eyes. Another one would be to have the libraries distributed by BOINC together with the app, but in that case I need some way of telling the app where they are... working on that one and solutions for this problem are welcome if anybody has one. To link the Fortran libraries statically, you need to specify them explicitly in the link command-line: gfortran ... -c foo.f gcc ... foo.o <path>/<library>.a -static-libgcc Notice that gcc, not gfortran, was used to link the final object. HTH ____________ |
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Andre Kerstens
Forum moderator Project tester Volunteer tester
Joined: Sep 11 06 Posts: 749 ID: 1 Credit: 15,199 RAC: 0 |
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It is my understanding that Apple doesn't support static compiles of applications and that you have to jump through a lot of hoops to achieve this. If you try to compile with the -static flag on Mac, you notice that it will complain about a missing object file:
/usr/bin/ld: can't locate file for: -lcrt0.o collect2: ld returned 1 exit status make: *** [all] Error 1 I have tried to find crt0.o on the net, but cannot find it anywhere. A Mac only has crt1.o which is for dynamic linking. Andre Finally got it to compile with the old version of Charmm with gfortran. The disadvantage is (and the climateprediction guys that I spoke with at SC'06 have the same problem) is that it dynamically links against the gfortran libraries. This means people have to install those libraries on their machines before they will be able to cruch with our app, which is not a great solution in my eyes. Another one would be to have the libraries distributed by BOINC together with the app, but in that case I need some way of telling the app where they are... working on that one and solutions for this problem are welcome if anybody has one. ____________ D@H the greatest project in the world... a while from now! |
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It is my understanding that Apple doesn't support static compiles of applications and that you have to jump through a lot of hoops to achieve this. Yuck! I had forgot about this... :-( In this case, sending the dynamic objects along with the application through BOINC is not a bad alternative. You can then use the environment variable LD_PRELOAD to specify them as part of the application command-line. E.g.:
LD_PRELOAD="../../projects/docking.utep.edu/libfoo.so ../../projects/docking.utep.edu/libbar.so" charmm...
HTH ____________ |
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Andre Kerstens
Forum moderator Project tester Volunteer tester
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Thanks for the info. Let me check whether we can get boinc to accept the preload parameter as part of the application.
In this case, sending the dynamic objects along with the application through BOINC is not a bad alternative. You can then use the environment variable LD_PRELOAD to specify them as part of the application command-line. E.g.: ____________ D@H the greatest project in the world... a while from now! |
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David Ball
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Joined: Sep 18 06 Posts: 274 ID: 115 Credit: 1,634,401 RAC: 0 |
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Finally got it to compile with the old version of Charmm with gfortran. The disadvantage is (and the climateprediction guys that I spoke with at SC'06 have the same problem) is that it dynamically links against the gfortran libraries. This means people have to install those libraries on their machines before they will be able to cruch with our app, which is not a great solution in my eyes. Another one would be to have the libraries distributed by BOINC together with the app, but in that case I need some way of telling the app where they are... working on that one and solutions for this problem are welcome if anybody has one. Aren't the libraries for the GCC series of compilers licensed under the LGPL. You should check with a lawyer, but I seem to remember that statically linking and distributing an application with the GNU LGPL licensed libraries might cause it to fall under the LGPL or GPL and have to be released as open source. I could easily be wrong on this, but it's worth checking in to. IIRC, Charmm is licensed software that you have to pay money for and that would probably be a big problem. I am not a lawyer or legal professional. I just glanced at the LGPL 2 and it's very confusing, at least to me. -- David |
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Andre Kerstens
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Thanks for the info David. We'll look into this. I hope this is not the case for dynamically linking the libraries and distributing these via boinc, else we have to go the way of asking people to download and install gfortran before attaching to the project, which is not necessarily a good solution for people that have never used the commandline on their mac's...
Finally got it to compile with the old version of Charmm with gfortran. The disadvantage is (and the climateprediction guys that I spoke with at SC'06 have the same problem) is that it dynamically links against the gfortran libraries. This means people have to install those libraries on their machines before they will be able to cruch with our app, which is not a great solution in my eyes. Another one would be to have the libraries distributed by BOINC together with the app, but in that case I need some way of telling the app where they are... working on that one and solutions for this problem are welcome if anybody has one. ____________ D@H the greatest project in the world... a while from now! |
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Aren't the libraries for the GCC series of compilers licensed under the LGPL. You should check with a lawyer, but I seem to remember that statically linking and distributing an application with the GNU LGPL licensed libraries might cause it to fall under the LGPL or GPL and have to be released as open source. The GCC libraries are licensed under GPL plus an exception clause to allow linkage against them without making the software itself GPL. HTH ____________ |
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Anything new on this front? I noticed in the news letter that was just sent, there are 15 PPC Macs attached to Docking. Is there actually work for them to test? Or are they just sitting there, getting "no work for your architecture" error messages?
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Andre Kerstens
Forum moderator Project tester Volunteer tester
Joined: Sep 11 06 Posts: 749 ID: 1 Credit: 15,199 RAC: 0 |
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We have been able to compile charmm for ppc using gfortran, but the problem is that it need some fortran libraries in the directory /usr/local/lib to work; if these libraries are not there, it will crash. This is actually the same problem as the climateprediction guys have and what they do is ask users to download and install these libraries separately before attaching to the project. We are not completely sure yet that this is a good solution... Somebody else on this thread mentioned the LD_PRELOAD parameter to load libraries from the boinc directory. That is something I am checking this week.
Anything new on this front? I noticed in the news letter that was just sent, there are 15 PPC Macs attached to Docking. Is there actually work for them to test? Or are they just sitting there, getting "no work for your architecture" error messages? ____________ D@H the greatest project in the world... a while from now! |
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Sorry folks. I have to detach my intel Macs. My team needs me in a Folding@Home challenge. I have only my PPC boxes available for non-F@H work. So when can I attach my PPC macs?
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Andre Kerstens
Forum moderator Project tester Volunteer tester
Joined: Sep 11 06 Posts: 749 ID: 1 Credit: 15,199 RAC: 0 |
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We haven't solved the library dependency yet. So for now good luck with your F@h challenge and hope to see you back soon!
Sorry folks. I have to detach my intel Macs. My team needs me in a Folding@Home challenge. I have only my PPC boxes available for non-F@H work. So when can I attach my PPC macs? ____________ D@H the greatest project in the world... a while from now! |
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We have been able to compile charmm for ppc using gfortran, but the problem is that it need some fortran libraries in the directory /usr/local/lib to work; if these libraries are not there, it will crash. This is actually the same problem as the climateprediction guys have and what they do is ask users to download and install these libraries separately before attaching to the project. We are not completely sure yet that this is a good solution... Somebody else on this thread mentioned the LD_PRELOAD parameter to load libraries from the boinc directory. That is something I am checking this week. Andre, what is about to use the wrapper script you have made for Linux to fix the ulimit problem, put the libs in the project directory, and set the DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH to the default project directory (/Library/Application\ Support/BOINC\ Data/projects/docking.utep.edu) from (within) this wrapper script. A other method is to compile the fortran libs with the prefix for the default project directory, and use this libs for linking with the application. So you can distribute the libs and the application from the BOINC server. I have also a little bit tested with statical linking on MacOS. It works, and I have seen no issue or problem. - I did not knew why Apple would not support this... |
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Andre Kerstens
Forum moderator Project tester Volunteer tester
Joined: Sep 11 06 Posts: 749 ID: 1 Credit: 15,199 RAC: 0 |
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Andre, what is about to use the wrapper script you have made for Linux to fix the ulimit problem, put the libs in the project directory, and set the DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH to the default project directory (/Library/Application Support/BOINC Data/projects/docking.utep.edu) from (within) this wrapper script. That's not a bad idea. Didn't think of that! A other method is to compile the fortran libs with the prefix for the default project directory, and use this libs for linking with the application. So you can distribute the libs and the application from the BOINC server. Please let us know how you compiled statically on a ppc mac. I have tried a lot of things, but haven't been able to do that yet. From our point of view that would be the ideal solution. Drop me an email at akerstens at utep.edu if you have the time. Thanks Andre ____________ D@H the greatest project in the world... a while from now! |
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Andre Kerstens
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Good news! Dotch helped us solve the dependency problems we had with our ppc app. Kudos to Dotsch!! (he's now on our
team
page too with the rest of the volunteers who helped us building this system :-)
Andre, what is about to use the wrapper script you have made for Linux to fix the ulimit problem, put the libs in the project directory, and set the DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH to the default project directory (/Library/Application Support/BOINC Data/projects/docking.utep.edu) from (within) this wrapper script. ____________ D@H the greatest project in the world... a while from now! |
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Outstanding! I have already attached one of my PPC machines. More to be added within the week.
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Outstanding! I have already attached one of my PPC machines. More to be added within the week. Two G4s now attached. One G5 in a couple days. ____________ Dublin, CA Team SETI.USA |
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w00t! Just downloaded some PPC goodness!
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Andre Kerstens
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Joined: Sep 11 06 Posts: 749 ID: 1 Credit: 15,199 RAC: 0 |
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This is the very first test for that platform. Please let us know how things are going. As a minimum, it shouldn't crash immediately :-)
w00t! Just downloaded some PPC goodness! ____________ D@H the greatest project in the world... a while from now! |
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I have the first PPC Mac online. It's a G5 (Power Macintosh [Power Macintosh Model PowerMac7,2] [AltiVec]). On Friday perhaps tomorrow another G5 gos online. |
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Andre Kerstens
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Wow Frank. Where do you find the cash to buy all these machines ;-)
I have the first PPC Mac online. It's a G5 (Power Macintosh [Power Macintosh Model PowerMac7,2] [AltiVec]). On Friday perhaps tomorrow another G5 gos online. ____________ D@H the greatest project in the world... a while from now! |
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Two G4s now attached. One G5 in a couple days. Okay, I now have all 4 of my PPC machines attached. G4 1.25ghz PowerBook G4 1.33ghz iBook G5 1.8ghz iMac G5 2.5 Quad-Core tower They are running a few other projects too. Equal shares of Docking, Rosetta, WCG, SETI, and SIMAP (project is only part time). So generally Docking will get .5 of a G4, and 1.25 of a G5 per day from me. I already have a validated WU: http://docking.utep.edu/workunit.php?wuid=45521 ____________ Dublin, CA Team SETI.USA |
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Two G4s now attached. One G5 in a couple days. Hi, Sorry do dig this thread up from its grave.... Is the PPC client dead? I added my new Vista PC to this project. When I saw it had a PPC client, I attached my Mac (G5, 2.3GHz). However, I get the error: Message from server: No work sent Message from server: Charmm 34a2 is not available for your type of computer If the client is not longer supported, perhaps the listing should be removed from the apps page. Thank you, Mike |
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4639 | Rating: 0
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Hi again, I just saw this addressed in another thread in a different section. I, and apparently quite a few others, will keep watch for if the PPC client returns, or if you need beta testers. Thank you. Mike |
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No further news on this topic? |
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I guess not. :(
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Message boards : Macintosh : What is the plan for PPC Macs?
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